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Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
[Misc]
Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Hello! I have a c258 and I use it above and beyond it's capabilities for years now simple because my volume is not high enough to pay for a bigger machine.
the only thing that really I find lacking is the printing quality, ofc Im aware that yeah ok this is an office grade machine, not a production one but if I can make it print better, I want to make it print better.
So looking through the threads in this forum I have read that even a low end machine will actually provide better quality with a fiery controller added on it.
So should I look for adding something like Image Controller IC-416 to c258 or in the next machine I will get, to get better quality?
My greatest problem is the color consistency that so far I was led to believe it was a matter of the machine on the drum level.
So you guys who have seen a ton more machines than me in action, does it worth it?
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
ive been a fan of the Fiery for 25 years.
when setup correctly you can tweak the images all you want with color curves and saturation, custom pantones etc...
personally i havent seen the best results with a Fiery on the i series but the 4 and 8 series you can produce rich colors as long as all your consumables are in good shape.
We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two.
The medication helps though...
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Don't have much experience with Fiery's as Synthohol but have found there isn't much difference in print quality. Don't think it's worth $4000+ when adding to a new machine. Plus to setup & calibrate Fiery correctly you need a densitometer which costs $1,000 to $2000.
I have one customer that loves the Fiery on his Biz C364e because he prints a lot of photos and can "tweak" facial tones, etc.
Recently removed a Fiery from a Biz C658 because customer liked quality better without Fiery installed.
Keep in mind the BizHub's are "business class" color. I look at it this way, you can put a Ferrari body on a Volkswagen but it's still a Volkswagen!
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Each office machine has a Gamut or color range. Adding the Fiery does not extend that range. What it will do is give you some additional features that may help you get your color the way it's supposed to be.
1. Color matching (with scanner)
2. Pantone matching (as long as the color is in the gamut)
3. Better substrate info and the ability to create paper catalogs.
4. Some advanced features the emperon driver does not support (like screening)
5. Allows use of Command Work Station to hold and reprint jobs.
If you want copies from today to look exactly like the copies produced 500 K ago then the Fiery is your better choice. Since it's an office machine with some really sub standard calibration tools (no IQ, no AQA) and a far shorter PM cycle, prepare to spend a lot of money to purchase a scanner, and a lot of time performing the needed calibrations, and be prepared to be really disappointed in your results.
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Originally posted by nitro912gr
Hello! I have a c258 and I use it above and beyond it's capabilities for years now simple because my volume is not high enough to pay for a bigger machine.
the only thing that really I find lacking is the printing quality, ofc Im aware that yeah ok this is an office grade machine, not a production one but if I can make it print better, I want to make it print better.
So looking through the threads in this forum I have read that even a low end machine will actually provide better quality with a fiery controller added on it.
So should I look for adding something like Image Controller IC-416 to c258 or in the next machine I will get, to get better quality?
My greatest problem is the color consistency that so far I was led to believe it was a matter of the machine on the drum level.
So you guys who have seen a ton more machines than me in action, does it worth it?
Thank you!
Have you tried using different color profiles within the Konica Minolta PCL driver properties? I have had a customer do that to match colors and get better quality. . profile1.JPG profile2.JPG
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Another thing to try since you mentioned inconsistencies is to run gradation. I believe the end user can do this through utility mode logged in as administrator. We typically run gradation 3 times in a row to get the best quality. This could be run as often as needed to maintain quality.
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
thank you all for your replies. So maybe it doesn't worth it for this level of machine, I mean if I'm to spend so much money I may as well get a refurbished production.
Yeah I have tried profiles and try not to let the PCL driver being at auto values because each time I print it may pick something different (for example with auto it may decide to print with vivid colors at Monday and at Wednesday to pick colormetric for the same job).
Do really running gradation multiple times change quality? I only do one and let it be if I feel the quality is off or change drums.
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Originally posted by nitro912gr
thank you all for your replies. So maybe it doesn't worth it for this level of machine, I mean if I'm to spend so much money I may as well get a refurbished production.
Yeah I have tried profiles and try not to let the PCL driver being at auto values because each time I print it may pick something different (for example with auto it may decide to print with vivid colors at Monday and at Wednesday to pick colormetric for the same job).
Do really running gradation multiple times change quality? I only do one and let it be if I feel the quality is off or change drums.
You can find used Fiery's for under $500. But keep in mind to calibrate correctly you will still need a densitometer. If you don't need precise colors the calibration in the Fiery should be good enough without densitometer.
The gradation adjustment has always been printing out 11x17 or two 11x8.5 three times and scanning each print out. The goal is to get the #'s in the last box under 10. You should see the #'s drop after each scan.
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
When running gradation there will be four columns of numbers, the two on the left are "Dark" and the two on the right are "Light". Columns 2 and 4 are the values you want to pay attention to. Our shop standard is +/- 20 in those columns and it may take more than just three attempts to achieve an acceptable level. Some people say you don't need to put blank sheets of paper on top of the print out but I still do, although, I don't when doing the "copy" part of gradation.
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
ok seriously I can't thank you enough guys, I wasn't aware of what those numbers where, I was just doing one gradation and that's it.
My numbers where wild, on the -38 territory for the Y. Did it 4 times in a row and dropped it below -10 on every color at those columns and it fixed that problem I reported here before...
I still don't understand why my tech guy didn't said to do just that and left me waiting for a response for weeks. Dude sure have gone to busy to have time for the small me lately
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
dunno if it still hold true but i was taught first column 0 +-100 and the highlights 0 -+60 any numbers in that range were ideal parameters.
that was back in the CF1501 days but i do still aim for that range and hasn't let me down. especially right before calibrating the fiery.
We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two.
The medication helps though...
Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Originally posted by Synthohol
dunno if it still hold true but i was taught first column 0 +-100 and the highlights 0 -+60 any numbers in that range were ideal parameters.
that was back in the CF1501 days but i do still aim for that range and hasn't let me down. especially right before calibrating the fiery.
Still valid today I don't think it's necessary more.
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Re: Add a fiery on office level machines, help with quality?
Originally posted by Hansoon
Please explain these abbreviations
Hans
IQ = Image quality on KM production units that offer an inline image quality adjustment device ( IQ-501) you can set it to check the colors as its running to keep the colors consistent as well as use it to auto adjust for skew plus a lot more . I think he AQA refers to same thing Auto Quality Adjusting
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and left me waiting for a response for weeks. Dude sure have gone to busy to have time for the small me lately 
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